My first thought with 16 Jetbikes was to make a badass dark Saim Hann list, but then… no “troop” jetbike options, no crazy seer council… so now I am at a loss. I have been leafing through the codex for ideas on a build, but it is not the easiest thing to read. Army Builder shows I can add jetbike transports to most of the HQ choices (Archon, Dracon, Haemonculi, Dracite) but I have no idea if this is an effective idea to pursue.I want to use these because If I had this many regular Eldar Jetbikes they wouldn't just sit on a shelf and collect dust.I think the Asdrubael Vect model/fluff/idea looks cool so I may just build something out of this collection to go with that. Any ideas on a jetbike list or should I just give the idea up altogether? I plan on buying more stuff, maybe beef up the Wyches, add some Incubi, and Scourges, but honestly I have no idea what to do with all of this stuff.1 Dracon1 Haemonculus with Stinger2 syrabites, whip, etc10 Wyches8 grotesques1 Beastmaster and 5 Warp Beast3 Raiders16 Reaver Jetbikes1 Talos120 Warriors with various weapon load outs, dark lances, splinters, etc
Well, the jetbikes aren't going to perform quite as well as Saim Hann. This is mostly due to a 4+ instead of a 3+ save, and a shorter range. I've had the best luck using Reavers as tankhunting units, and assault support. With the amount or bikes you have, you could probably do both.
HQs on bikes are quite great, I personally use a Haemonculus on a jetbike almost all the time, he'd work great in this idea. Stick him in a squad, destructor before assaulting. Archons/Dracons are extra deadly on a jetbike, with the strength bump to 4, the addition of a Punisher and some Combat drugs make them a danger to anything on the field.
So really quickly, this would be a quick, very assault oriented list. I'd normally steer away from this kind of uber-unit thing, but my thought would be to put the jetbike mounted Dracon with the larger unit or jetbikes, since he'll be buried I didn't give him the shadowfield. Once he managed one CC kill though, he'll be str 6, possibly 7 with combat drugs, and Ld 10. The Reaver Succubus will be slicing with S5 as well. This is what I'd start with for 1500 points.
HQ
Dracon - Reaver, Combat Drugs, Trophy Racks, Punisher, Animus Vitae - 140
Haemonculus - Reaver, Scissorhands, Destructor, Shadow Field - 105
Haemonculus - Scissorhands, Destructor - 45
Elite
Wyches x8 - Succubus, Agonizer, Wych weapons, plasma grenades,
-Raider w/horrorfex - 200
Warpbeast x5 plus Beastmaster - 75
Troops
Raidersquad x9 Sybarite, Agonizer, Splinter Cannon Blaster
-Raider w/horrorfex - 173
Raidersquad x9 Sybarite, Agonizer, Splinter Cannon Blaster
-Raider w/horrorfex - 173
Warriors x12 - 2 Dark Lance - 116
Warriors x12 - 2 Dark Lance - 116
Fast Attack
Reavers x4 - 2 Blasters - 120
Reavers x7 - 2 Blasters, Succubus, Punisher, Tormentor Helm - 236
So, stick the Dracon with the large Reaver squad, the other will skulk around the edges trying to get to rears of tanks, and then use the assault move to get away. Haemonculus on foot should join one of the Raider squads, use the other Raider squad to try and support the large Reaver squad. Wyches should be supported by the Warp Beasts if possible. The Haemonculus on the Reaver can fly around and destructor whatever is clumped and/or in cover. A couple good AP rolls and he makes his points back quick. The Raider squad with the Haemonculus are going to be the objective busters. Run them up to an objective, get out and unload everything but your rifles on them. If you think they are going to be a problem and are going to assault, try and horrorfex them from the raider before you shoot, you want maybe 3-5 marines, or 5-10 guardsman types to be left in order to wipe them out, more than that and you may want to get some re-inforcements in. Your two sniper squads with the dark lances should try and sit in cover and hold an objective each if possible.
I know I've said to support each of your big assault units, seems strange, and I'll explain better in a later post, but the short is, you want to try and win that combat, and it's better if your opponent has to split attention between two units. A nice secondary effect, is if you need to, you have a less important unit to screen for you.
After the first game, assess how the big CC units did, wyches and the reaver/dracon combo, adjust them up or down depending on how overly killy they were. Wyches should do fine, 8 seems to be an optimal number, reavers could be tough, might fair better dropping one, or two.
I appreciate the advice and hope to try it this weekend. This is what I played last sunday, tell me what you think. I played a very friendly game against tyranids and nearly tabled my opponent.
ReplyDeleteThe general idea was to run the Jetbikes like a crappy seer council (Terror Council?) while running the slow talos towards whatever he can get close enough to. At least warrior bikes have better stats than guardian bikes, T5! Deep Strike three Raider Squads and a team of Scourges. I ran this list with an Archon and felt that three more Haemonculi would be 100% more useful.
Terror Council #1 (3HQ, 1Champ, 4Basic)
Haemonculi: Scissorhand; Stinger; Shadow Field; Jetbike
Haemonculi: Scissorhand; Destructor; Jetbike
Haemonculi: Scissorhand; Destructor; Jetbike
Succubus: Agoniser; Pistol; Dispenser, Soulseek; Haywire; Plasma; Jetbike
Reaver Squad: 1 Blaster; 1 Shredder
Terror Council #2 (3HQ, 1Champ, 4Basic)
Haemonculi: Scissorhand; Stinger; Jetbike
Haemonculi: Scissorhand; Destructor; Jetbike
Haemonculi: Scissorhand; Destructor; Jetbike
Succubus: Agoniser; Pistol; Dispenser, Soulseek; Haywire; Plasma; Jetbike
Reaver Squad: 1 Blaster; 1 Shredder
Troops: Raider Squad (Full)
Raider Squad:Shredder; Dark Lance
Sybarite: Agoniser; Pistol; Soulseeker
Raider: Dark Lance; Horrorfex; Nightshields; Screaming Jets; Scythes
Troops: Raider Squad (Full)
Raider Squad:Shredder; Dark Lance
Sybarite: Agoniser; Pistol; Dispenser; Soulseeker
Raider: Disentegrator; Horrorfex; Nightshields; Screaming Jets;
Troops: Raider Squad (Full)
Raider Squad:Shredder; Dark Lance
Sybarite: Agoniser; Pistol; Dispenser; Soulseeker
Raider: Disentegrator; Horrorfex; Nightshields; Screaming Jets;
Heavy: Scourges (5)
Scourges: 4 Cannons
Sybarite: Poison Blades; Dispenser; Soulskee; Rifle; Haywire; Plasma
Heavy: Talos
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Dark Lances on the Raider squads seem a waste since you can't shoot them for 3+ turns. Screaming Jets are nice at first glance, but only your Raider can shoot the turn it deep strikes, and you don't get the cover save for moving fast. 24" mean you can probably make it to anywhere you were going to deepstrike. Because those Raiders are going to be so close, the nightshields can be iffy. I usually find the points can be better used elsewhere, but they are fine as is.
ReplyDeleteI'd probably go with all destructor on the Haemonculus units, and liberally break off the one with the shadowfield to hunt problem units in cover. I know you have 2 models with the stinger, one those can be converted pretty easy.
I'd maybe change the soulseeker ammo to trophy racks. Ignoring a cover save with a AP5 weapon isn't gonna get you very far, but they extra +1 Ld will help once you are in close combat.
Depending on how close you get your Scourges, a xenospasm might be the best upgrade for the Sybarite, gives them some extra anti-infantry punch.
I am thinking of messing around with the two units of 8 bikes and maybe even breaking it into three units down the road depending how these games go.
ReplyDeleteMy weapon choices were really just to test the waters so if you say go all destructors I will definitely take your word for it. What do you think about the Blaster/Shredder on the bikes? I gave one of each now just to test em out.
I will try the trophy racks for sure, an extra leadership will never hurt.
I wanted to keep the scourges well away and just have them fire the 16, 24" shots every turn.
The deep striking Raider Squads where mainly to keep them alive longer and the option to drop down and pop a tank with a lance. Also deep striking transport vehicles is kind of a neat idea that lends its own tactics. That and the miserable AV terrifies me. What do you think if I swap the Troop Lances/Shredders out for Blasters and Splinter Cannons? I could either drop close and surprise with a blaster/lance combo, or farther away and still hit with Splinter Cannons.
Lance can only fire if the Raider is stationary, or if the warriors got out the previous turn, and remain stationary. For a Raider squad, Splinter Cannon is generally the way to go.
ReplyDeleteAs for Blaster vs Shredder, they both will end up doing about the same. Generally if I have two options in a squad, I'll try and put two of the same. Bikes I usually do Blasters, becaue they have the mobility to get to rear armour.
As far as Deep Striking for survivability, you'll actually find a flat out move will be better for you. Generally, you will be about 24" away from the enemy, so a flat out move puts you right in front of the enemy. With the 4+ save from the flat out move, only half of the hits are going to count, and more often than not, you will be either immobilized/destroyed, as opposed to explodes. The key for a destroyed result, is your Raider remains as terrain. This is why I generally finish my Raider move sideways. Once the Raider is destroyed, I place it on its side, with the bottom towards the enemy, then the unit inside disembarks behind the Raider, giving them all a cover save. Provided you make the pinning check, they are ready to move and do their business as needed. If they fail the pinning check, you are taking 3+ cover saves.